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How Adani is taking over NDTV without consulting the Roys
Main Post: How Adani is taking over NDTV without consulting the Roys
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How to take over a democracy?
Step 1 : Take control of govt ☑️.
Step 2 : Take control of executive branch ☑️.
Step 3 : Take control of judiciary ███████▒▒▒.
Step 4 : Take control of media ███▒▒▒▒▒▒▒.
GGWP
Revisiting the "dog cage" game from the Roys' childhood
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I think the few quick and ambiguous exchanges about the "dog cage" game in S1E8 are incredibly important in trying to understand these characters. For one, it was written in a way that makes it unclear what actually happened and it is never fully explained, so the writers definitely wanted us to dig in and analyze it. I'm sure that's been done numerous times on this sub but I thought I might as well give it a shot myself.
First, what actually happened in the dog cage? Throughout the episode, we get three very different versions of the story.
The three sides of the story
Roman's version: when he was four years old, Kendall made him play a game where he was locked in a cage like a dog and had to eat dog food out of "a cold, tin bowl" before he could be released. According to Roman, this game resulted in him "going weird" and wetting the bed, and that led Logan to send him to military school. Clearly this event is traumatic for Roman
Kendall's version: the dog cage thing was a game that both him and Roman enjoyed. For Kendall, it was really just a fun game from his childhood and he's angered by Roman's accusations
Connor's version: both Kendall and Roman enjoyed the game, and Logan was aware that they were playing it. Not only that, but Logan had "a theory that you’ve got 2 fighting dogs, you punish the weak one and then everyone knows the hierarchy, and everyone’s happy". Connor also says that Roman was sent to military school because he wanted to go
So what actually happened?
It's a pretty complex puzzle, and the most important point is that they all have a different interpretation, and all of them have certain delusions about what happened.
To Kendall, this wasn't a significant moment and it was just a fun game. To Roman, this was traumatizing to the point that he blames many of his issues from his childhood (bed wetting, being sent to military school) on it. It's possible that Roman's whole attitude is the result of the cage game. In conversations with others, Roman is always on the offense, always attacking them verbally.
Unlike Kendall, Connor seems to recognize that the game was significant, but also believes they both enjoyed the ig when it's clear Roman did not. And most importantly, Kendall and Roman both repressed their father's involvement in the game.
What exactly was Logan's role in the game?
Did he stumble across the kids while they played the game and watch or did he have a more active role? Did he push them to play it, did he create the game himself? This much isn't clear, but Connor's wording is oddly specific. Logan "had a theory" meaning he wasn't just aware of the game, but was analyzing its effect on the kids. Whatever the case, Logan thought it was a good idea to pit his kids against each other and establish a hierarchy.
Why is this game still important?
Later in the episode, after Kendall "wins" in the fight to get Sandy's support, and immediately after hearing Connor's version of what happened, Roman and Kendall take the elevator. This elevator looks like a cage. Before leaving the cage-elevator, Kendall pushes Roman. I believe this is Kendall's way of asserting his dominance after successfully winning Sandy's favor. As he did in their childhood, Kendall is once again the "top dog" and (according to Logan's theory, which Kendall only just discovered) the "bad dog" must be punished in order to establish the hierarchy. Meaning, in order for Kendall to be the boss Roman must be punished.
So the best theory I've seen here says that Logan is still playing the "dog cage" game. The elevator scene is proof that, whether Logan is doing it on purpose or not, the kids at least are still playing the game. Logan is pitting the kids against each other (possibly deliberately) and waiting to see who wins the game and is "killer" enough to be his successor.
I'll end this on a random question I've been wondering. Since Logan knew about it, was Caroline aware of the game, too?
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Caroline is so emotionally detached that she wouldn't even know what she named her own kids.
Waystar's valuation / the Roys' net worth
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Josh Aaronson owns 4% of Waystar Royco but said he had lost 10% of his shares' value - $350 million.
This values the whole company at around $87.5 billion.
If Kendall's shares are worth around $2 billion, he owns 2.28% of the company. Assuming the siblings each have identical shares, the four of them own just under 10% of the company with a combined net worth of $8 billion.
Ewan also has a stated net worth of around £250 million - assuming the majority of this comes from Waystar shares, he owns 0.29% of the company.
Have they ever stated / how much do you think Logan personally owns, along with Sandy / Stewie, Marcia, Caroline etc.?
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I have it in my head that they once said the family share is 36%, but I have no memory of which episode I heard this in, so...
The Roys all got what they deserved.
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It's tempting to view the ending as: "BAD cause siblings lost the company", but ultimately I think it gave everyone the perfect karmic conclusion in a way.
Kendall: in the last half hour or so of the episode, he showed how psycho and unlikeable he was when just on the cusp of power as CEO; first pre-meeting with his violent power move on Roman, and then when Shiv turned on him, just losing his shit and flying off the handle in a volatile way, attacking Roman again, etc. He showed on the one hand that he really wasn't ready (like Shiv says, whatever her motives are), and that he really didn't deserve it either. So having power yanked out from under him and not being able to succeed Logan with his toxic brand of leadership was fitting. Maybe he'll kill himself, maybe he'll finally be unburdened of the absurd expectations Logan put on him when he was seven. But Kendall got what he deserved.
Roman: The most likable of the trio this season in my opinion, Roman has just been unraveling in a pretty sad and pathetic way. Not only clearly is he in no place to lead as shown at the funeral, but he also seeming didn't really give af whether they kept Waystar or not. I think more than anything he was sick of being a pawn in his sibling's plans. Kendall's psycho behavior pretty much destroyed their relationship, and at the end he recognized that none of it matters. While all the siblings were "victims" of Logan, I think Roman the most secretly WANTED to get out (even though he couldn't bring himself to vote against Kendall), and in the end deserved freedom from his siblings and Waystar. In the end, he IS free, and contrary to his siblings, dare I say, a little happy? I think Roman got what he deserved.
Shiv: She's shown herself consistently incapable of loyalty and flip-flopping to suit her needs. She was ready to fuck over her brothers when it meant power for her, then turned on Madsen when she found that wouldn't be the case, then turned BACK on Kendall when, IMO, she both couldn't stand to see Kendall win instead of her and also likely calculated that she would be better served in Tom's fold with him as the CEO. Except if that's the case, the as that final car scene beautifully shows, she totally miscalculated; in a reversal from Shiv and Tom's initial relationship, she's now gonna be the humiliated, basically powerless, "Wife" of her CEO husband who along with Madsen can do whatever he wants with her family's company while keeping her on as tight a leash as he wants. Shiv got what she deserved.
So yeah, IMO what a great final run for these characters, I can't think of a more fitting ending for any of them.
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I think you’re spot on about Roman. I already rewatched the last 30 minutes and it seems clear to me that Roman just wanted it to be over, and was profoundly relieved when he got to that martini. He also summed up the whole show with his “you’re bullshit, I’m bullshit, she’s bullshit” remarks.
Is anyone on this sub from a similar class level to the Roys?
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Or can lie entertainingly that they are? Doesn't have to be billionaires only, just some degree of wealth that separates you from the pygmies.
What's your take on the accuracy/relatability of the show? How has your background affected you?
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Does being like Greg in S01 counts?
Do the Roys actually love each other?
Main Post: Do the Roys actually love each other?
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I've asked myself this question many times, and my answer is and always will be that Succession is a nothing story if no one loves each other. It is the emotional core of the entire show. The tragedy is that the love is there, it was always there, but it wasn't enough to overcome the layers upon layers of trauma and the late-stage capitalist world they (we) all live in, which is inherently hostile to healthy expressions of love, love without ego or agendas, love for the sake of it.
It's easy to say Logan doesn't love his kids, Shiv doesn't love Tom, Willa doesn't love Connor, Gerri doesn't on some level love Roman, the siblings don't love each other, but what does that leave us with? I'm of the unpopular opinion that abuse and love are not, in fact, mutually exclusive- i think it's perfectly reasonable that someone can feel love for someone else and still intentionally or unintentionally treat them terribly, and when we paint abusers as unfeeling monsters incapable of love, we other them and make their behavior harder to recognize and avoid, both in our day to day relationships and in ourselves- of course he's not abusing me, he loves me. I'm not an abuser, I love this person.
If no one in Succession loves each other, then all it is is another corporate drama. Everyone is only out for themselves, and you're never put in a position to hope for anything more from them. But because they love each other, we get glimpses of who these people could have been in another life, who they could be in this life if they were emotionally capable of stepping up to that plate.
The love is there, and it's never, ever enough.
What scene/episode shows the Roys are RICH AS F**K?
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What scene or episode makes you realize the true riches and billions of the Roy Family? Where you are like holy cow, these are the .000000001% of people in the world.
Could also be a quote they casually drop as well.
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I’ve been thinking a lot about the episode where Shiv is trying to talk to Logan and she literally has to chase him around the world. Separate jets. He eludes her multiple times too. Stupid money.
Would you consider the Roys "pure evil"?
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When I say "Roys," I mean the kids Kendall, Roman, Shiv, and Connor. Do you think they are "pure evil"? I just started season 2, and I think the Roys are obviously horrible and bad people, but I don't know if they are "pure evil." The only one I would consider "evil" is Logan, since he was abusing his children. I know Kendall killed the kid at the end of season 1, but that was an accident, and he felt super guilty, and it ate him up inside. If he were pure evil, he wouldn't have cared, and he didn't go out of his way to purposefully kill him. "Evil" is one of the most heinous crimes you can commit. I don't know if I can actually say it here, and some of the really evil things are known, and so far the Roys have not done that, so I would consider them "bad," and "assholes" but not outright "evil." What do you think?
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I don't think even Logan is pure evil, we see from the scars on his back that he suffered his own abuse as a child, and in a way he does love his children, but abuse is the only form of love he ever knew. They're all victims who later on perpetrated their own forms of abuse. Pure Evil is kind of a strong word to describe such complex characters. I don't really think there's any Pure Evil characters in the show.
TL;DR are they bad people? Yes. Are they pure evil? No
Exploring the Relationship Choices of the Roys: Why Date/Marry Middle-Class Individuals?
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After watching the recent episode where Logan tells Shiv that she's "marrying beneath her," it got me thinking about the relationship choices of the Roy children. The Roys, as a family, exude elitism and classism, yet their romantic partners seem to come from middle-class backgrounds. This has piqued my curiosity, and I'd love to hear your insights and thoughts on why the characters in the show tend to date and marry individuals outside of ultra-rich circles.
In the world of "Succession," one might expect ultra-rich individuals to seek romantic partners who come from similar backgrounds, sharing the same wealth, power, and social status. However, the characters in the show often find themselves in relationships with middle-class individuals, sometimes even facing criticism from their own family members for doing so. This raises a few questions: Why don't the Roys marry into other ultra-rich families? Is there a reason behind this apparent departure from traditional expectations?
Moreover, I'm curious to know if this portrayal aligns with real-life dynamics among the ultra-rich. Do multi-millionaires and billionaires, in reality, have a preference for their children to marry into other wealthy families? Or is there a diversity of choices when it comes to selecting partners? Are there any historical or societal reasons that might influence these decisions?
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There isn't any to choose from? And those aren't middle class people either.
Can we discuss options for the Roys going forward?
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Kendall, Roman, Connor & Shiv have options and things to fight for. Clearly the rest of the episode will be about their options & decisions or whether the board etc could pull the company out from under them. Let’s discuss!
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Noted. Also: fully justified:)
I am still bummed no one else is talking about the likely RELIEF all kids must also have that their tormentor is gone.
(Edited to clarify)